tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-109529730340432578.post6589874961632081900..comments2023-06-09T16:06:19.590+03:00Comments on Paranoid Engineering: Screw all GUI buildersTomas Varaneckashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08399177196889385951noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-109529730340432578.post-31835532167867741832009-04-21T23:43:00.000+03:002009-04-21T23:43:00.000+03:00I once also followed your arguments. But since usi...I once also followed your arguments. But since using NetBeans Gui Builder, I'd never write Guis again by hand. It's just SO much faster using a gui-builder.<br />Write your UI Components as JavaBeans and you're quite flexible as well. <br />Everything else brings possibly a bit nicer code but takes SO much more time which noone pays me... so: Learn Guis by writing them by hand - and when you understood what the code's doing: use a gui builder to raise your efficiency.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-109529730340432578.post-63204277818436599222009-02-16T22:05:00.000+02:002009-02-16T22:05:00.000+02:00To Anonymous with old VE. ;-)WindowBuilder Pro had...To Anonymous with old VE. ;-)<BR/><BR/>WindowBuilder Pro had getter-based creation code (we call it "lazy creation") from beginning of Swing support.Konstantin Scheglovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03863333121582102152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-109529730340432578.post-1721709437595508272009-02-16T11:18:00.000+02:002009-02-16T11:18:00.000+02:00This is why I still use Eclipse's Visual Editor. A...This is why I still use Eclipse's Visual Editor. <BR/>As far as I know, it's the only GUI builder that creates getter-based creation code. Unlike Matisse, Jigloo, JFormDesigner, ...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-109529730340432578.post-2285800635208568962009-02-14T13:48:00.000+02:002009-02-14T13:48:00.000+02:00Try windowbuilder pro, it negates most, if not all...Try windowbuilder pro, it negates most, if not all your pains with UI builders you reference here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-109529730340432578.post-71550175476362420032009-02-14T10:31:00.000+02:002009-02-14T10:31:00.000+02:00The example posted is for a very simple window, no...The example posted is for a very simple window, not an application. I am using Visual Studio with DevExpress. This has a very good GUI builder (even though is drives you crazy sometimes) and for some complex tasks there is just no excuse for building the GUI by hand. <BR/><BR/>Its like coding assembly language, if you have a good high level language compiler, at a certain level of complexity writing assembly language does not make sense.<BR/><BR/>This does not mean I don't hand code GUIs (although I don't write much assembly language any more). We have to select the right tool for the right job. Some times that means hand coding and some time it means using a gui builder.Dennis Sellingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17039039318920378800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-109529730340432578.post-89006282973120590252009-02-14T05:52:00.000+02:002009-02-14T05:52:00.000+02:00I use Mattisse and have done for a while. I'm a ja...I use Mattisse and have done for a while. I'm a java contractor with Swing experience since it came out. What you have to remember is that GUI's are the real easy bit, the real meat of any commercial product is the business logic behind the scene's. If you can create a front end that works easily with a builder then great, what the code looks like is of no concern at all to the user. What really makes them made is when the rest of the logic is screwed and thats the bit where the time should be spent.<BR/><BR/>Nowdays the builders can produce perfectly good front ends with little effort. I wouldn't want to spend all my time tweaking things by hand crafting again. Saying that I still add document objects, specific event handlers, cell renderers by hand but I have loads and loads of classes I've built up over the year to help with that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-109529730340432578.post-83534434379914990622009-02-14T05:36:00.000+02:002009-02-14T05:36:00.000+02:00I know you're using Java here, but try QT Designer...I know you're using Java here, but try QT Designer. It just might change your opinion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-109529730340432578.post-87858102580196348802009-02-14T03:36:00.000+02:002009-02-14T03:36:00.000+02:00I think GUI builders are a good thing for building...I think GUI builders are a good thing for building quick prototypes and simple one panel utility apps. In fewer words: something that's unlikely to need any maintenance. I feel it's hard enough to maintain concise code a human wrote a year later, so why make it even harder?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-109529730340432578.post-46676310087081024182009-02-14T03:26:00.000+02:002009-02-14T03:26:00.000+02:00What you need to discover is JavaBuilders.orghttp...What you need to discover is JavaBuilders.org<BR/><BR/>http://www.scribd.com/doc/10246141/Swing-JavaBuilderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-109529730340432578.post-16237357145192073422009-02-14T03:02:00.000+02:002009-02-14T03:02:00.000+02:00Not a dozen lines, but how about 123?Here's my tak...Not a dozen lines, but how about 123?<BR/><BR/>Here's my take on this experiment, using PyQt: http://lateral.netmanagers.com.ar/weblog/2009/02/13.html#BB773<BR/><BR/>Mind you, it has things like setting the exact same font a dozen times, but it's really trivial code.Roberto Alsinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02268353255973869338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-109529730340432578.post-5195983529119963132009-02-14T02:48:00.000+02:002009-02-14T02:48:00.000+02:00I use old JBuilder X* I know how exactly the gener...I use old JBuilder X<BR/><BR/>* I know how exactly the generated code works.<BR/>* This GUI builder don't force me to use single class for single window.<BR/>* This GUI builder allow me to modify the generated code.<BR/>* This GUI builders don't force me to use only one IDE.<BR/>* The generated code is not far from being optimal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-109529730340432578.post-13974176292552551202009-02-14T02:34:00.000+02:002009-02-14T02:34:00.000+02:00And it all could be replaced by about a dozen line...And it all could be replaced by about a dozen lines of Python.... <BR/><BR/>(ducks and runs....)rrwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04359716310567724692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-109529730340432578.post-23233324228601750612009-02-13T22:56:00.000+02:002009-02-13T22:56:00.000+02:00The only one that works is Apple's -- because ther...The only one that works is Apple's -- because there is a genuine separation of concerns there between code and data.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12757268515031054537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-109529730340432578.post-53871129513764314202009-02-13T16:07:00.000+02:002009-02-13T16:07:00.000+02:00I feel your pain.It's one of those things you can ...I feel your pain.<BR/>It's one of those things you can ponder for days and then change your mind several times. I consider myself weak in the realm of creating UIs. Sure I can tell you what I hate, but creating a nice looking UI isn't easy. So of course you opt to use the tools. Drag n drop...yeah!!!! But then you need code in from listener stuff and you open that code and it takes you forever to figure out what's going on in there. <BR/>This is why I usually hand code. A lot of times I'll use the tool to create a very complex windows, and then ditch the tool, re-organize and refactor, and handcode the rest.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com